Talk:Planeswalker

Adding Teferi

Should "Teferi" be listed here as a planeswalker type even though it isn't in the current Comprehensive Rules? --Craftykids (talk)

The list is about the current subtypes. But you could make a note that Teferi will be added later --Hunter (talk) 04:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Visited planes

What do the admins think of including the information found in this thread on the planeswalker pages? http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6841&sid=0b69c4034b84648b38dd4ffa7845fe72&p=365975#p365975 --MattoFrank (talk) 21:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You never need an admin's permission to edit the wiki (okay, outside of protected pages, but those are rare). If you think it will improve the article, it's standard and encouraged wiki practice to be bold! Just do it! Having said that, my opinion as just another editor is that this wiki is overloaded with list content already ("referenced on", "locations on <plane>", "strictly better", etc). I personally don't feel that adding a travelogue to each planeswalker's page adds much value to those pages, and I definitely don't think that the list itself is noteworthy, because it lacks detail about those visits and as linked, lacks sources. However, I do think there are ways we can use that information. You might add a field to the character template listing the character's last known location. You could use that list to help verify that the sections detailing a character's history are complete, or to write such a section from scratch it needed. There are definitely ways to use it, but that particular page is essentially uncitable. --Corveroth (talk) 00:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I'd find it useful, as I like building hypothetical decks for Planeswalkers with cards representing previous visits to a list of planes. So I guessed others might find it useful as well :D I intended to add it to that template, yeah, so I'll figure out how it'll look best. The reason I asked first is that I used to work on the Borderlands wiki and some people lost their shit when I first started changing things, even though they later admitted that my changes were for the better. This made me cautious, so ... --MattoFrank (talk) 03:36, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I would ask, first: is this information that someone might want at a glance? Is it brief? Is it a key characteristic of the article subject? My opinion is that the content we're talking about is best suited to coverage in the article body itself, perhaps as lead sentences or subheadings within their biography. Still, you do you. I don't really have a dog in this fight, and I can't imagine you'll hit backlash as long as you do your work consistently and well. --Corveroth (talk) 04:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't hurt to consult others when you are planning systematic changes. I agree that the character template would be a logical place to place such a listing. I have no objections. --Hunter (talk) 05:00, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Dakkon

Dakkon was directly called a planeswalker in the Dominaria story. Part 1. They mention that a planeswalker killed an elder dragon using the blade, so that would seem to confirm Dakkon is a planeswalker in the revisionist storyline. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J spencer93 (talk • contribs).

Agreed. We already added him to the Planeswalker Nav. - Yandere Sliver 09:06, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Planeswalker commanders listed by subtype (familiar name) not cardname

Personally I hate when cards are referenced and I can't hover-look at the card itself. I might change the Planeswalkers-as-commanders list to link each card, which means their full names will show. But I'm in no hurry - the fact that it will be a mild pain to even figure out the exact name of each card kind of speaks to the reason to change it... Just FYI for now in case there are objections or someone else wants to take up the torch. It's true that the simple names are easier to read in a sentence, but these are lists anyway, many of which have only a couple entries per set, so it'll probably help more than it hurts. - jerodast (talk) 16:46, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Wow! Way to go User:Neoheart! - jerodast (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Cutting back trivia

See Wikipedia:MOS:TRIVIA. If ever there were "trivia magnet," this is it. I'm moving everything here so we can sort through it, decide what's worth keeping, incorporate it into other sections and articles, and delete everything else. To flag something for deletion, or after you incorporate it into a mainspace article, I suggest <s>striking it</s> from this list (rather than deleting it) and leaving a comment, so others can see the list evolve without needing to dig through the edit history. That said, feel free to reorganize or reword stuff. --Inktog (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

Planeswalker trivia pile

Recent as of Tarkir: Dragonstorm

• Statistics — Some pages, e.g. Legendary, have a "statistics" field in their infobox breaking down the cards by color. If we wanted to do that for Planeswalker, the following would be a starting point. --Inktog (talk) 15:59, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • There are 318 planeswalker cards total (including two acorn cards, 12 digital-only cards, and 5 Heroes of the Realm cards), depicting 84 different planeswalker characters.
  • There are 127 multicolored planeswalker cards.
  • There are eight colorless planeswalker cards.
• Color — This could be the start of a "Color" heading talking about how WotC tries to diversify the colors of their planeswalkers. --Inktog (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Summarised the main aspect of color representatives, didn't go into detail about Rakdos, the split-three colors, four-color or five-color. Shield (talk) 21:48, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

**There have been at least seven printed planeswalker cards for each of the two-color pairs, with having the fewest at seven, three of which are Angrath. It lacks due to only one main planeswalker and all other representatives (Sarkhan, Ob Nixilis, Tibalt, Daretti) being often printed monocolored.

• • Ten planeswalker types have been printed with a color identity of three colors: Nicol Bolas (), Sarkhan (), Aminatou, Dakkon (), Dihada ( and ), Windgrace (), Narset, Guff (), Tamiyo and Estrid (). No Naya (), Sultai () or Abzan () planeswalkers have been printed.
    • Ajani, Huatli ( with or ), Samut ( with ), and Nissa ( with or ) have been associated with three color combinations missing a planeswalker, but never all at the same time, while Sarkhan (missing ) and Dihada (missing ) have an association with four colors across their cards. Urza's silver-bordered card and Jared Carthalion are all five colors.
• Abilities Some of this section could go onto Loyalty ability because that page is rather sparse on information Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

On second thought, most of these do not use loyalty abilities in novelty - most are unique from their passive abilities. May need rethinking. Shield (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

Honestly, I would be happy to get rid of everything in this section, with the exception of the WAR innovations (which can be added to War of the Spark) and maybe Urza's six abilities. I don't think anything else clears the bar for encyclopedic content, it's too card-specific. --Inktog (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

• • The largest number of abilities one face of a planeswalker card has had so far is six:
    • Urza, Planeswalker has five loyalty abilities and one static ability. In order to properly depict the power differential between pre-Mending planeswalkers, it has high loyalty, multiple activations for the static ability, and four powerful abilities that can be used immediately. In exchange, it is a meld card (and cannot be cheated out) and requires two specific permanents and seven mana to become a planeswalker.
    • The Wandering Emperor has three loyalty abilities and two static abilities. She is the first planeswalker with five abilities. Interestingly enough, both static abilities (one of which is Flash, a planeswalker first) have no impact after the first turn of permanence, and neither really functions without the other, making it effectively a single linked ability.
    • Kaito, Bane of Nightmares also has three loyalty abilities and two static abilities, one of which is Ninjutsu; as such, it has no bearing on the battlefield. Ugin, Eye of the Storm also has the same ability distribution, with one being a cast trigger.
    • Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Garruk, Apex Predator, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Nicol Bolas, the Arisen, Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Wrenn and Seven, and Jaya, Fiery Negotiator have four loyalty abilities.
    • Liliana, Dreadhorde General, Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge, Tyvar Kell, Professor Onyx, Will, Scholar of Frost, Kasmina, Enigma Sage, Kaito Shizuki, Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh, Space Beleren, Kaito, Dancing Shadow, Chandra, Hope's Beacon, Wrenn and Realmbreaker, Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator, Quintorius Kand, Kaya, Spirits' Justice, Oko, the Ringleader, Sorin, Ravenous Neonate, Chandra, Spark Hunter and Elspeth, Storm Slayer have four abilities total, with three loyalty abilities and one static or triggered ability.
      • Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Niko Aris, Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis, Dakkon, Shadow Slayer, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Ob Nixilis, the Adversary, Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor, Jace, Reawakened, and Ral, Leyline Prodigy have a passive ability that modifies their casting or resolution, but are otherwise normal once resolved.
      • Tamiyo, Compleated Sage, Ajani, Sleeper Agent, Jace, the Perfected Mind, Vraska, Betrayal's Sting, Nissa, Ascended Animist, Nahiri, the Unforgiving, and Lukka, Bound to Ruin all have Compleated as their static ability, linked to their Phyrexian mana cost. They are also otherwise normal once resolved.
      • Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God, Geyadrone Dihada, Lolth, Spider Queen, Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim, The Eternal Wanderer, Kaya, Intangible Slayer, Ral, Crackling Wit, Kaito, Cunning Infiltrator and The Aetherspark all have passive abilities that only affect themselves, such as their abilities or loyalty counters. If unable to activate abilities (such as being named by Pithing Needle), they would have no relevance to the board state.
    • Gideon Blackblade, Vivien, Monsters' Advocate, Jace, Mirror Mage, and Commodore Guff have four abilities, with two static or triggered abilities and two loyalty abilities. Much like The Wandering Emperor, Vivien and Jace have linked non-loyalty abilities that are close to useless if either is missing.
    • Nahiri, the Lithomancer, Teferi, Temporal Archmage, Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath, Daretti, Scrap Savant, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Aminatou, the Fateshifter, Estrid, the Masked, Saheeli, the Gifted, Lord Windgrace, Tasha, the Witch Queen, Elminster, Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes, Dihada, Binder of Wills, Jared Carthalion, Sivitri, Dragon Master, and Commodore Guff all have a static fourth ability which allows them to be a commander. Similarly, Will Kenrith, Rowan Kenrith, Jeska, Thrice Reborn, and Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools technically have five abilities: they also have the static ability which allows them to be a Commander, in addition to another static ability that gives them Partner. Made reference to on Commander (designation) (not partner). Shield (talk) 00:07, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Double-faced planeswalkers often have more than three abilities as well, but not ever at the same time:
    • Garruk Relentless has a total of five loyalty abilities or six abilities of any kind: two loyalty abilities and a triggered ability on the front, and three loyalty abilities on the back.
    • Arlinn Kord has a total of five: two on her human side and three on her transformed side.
    • Arlinn, the Pack's Hope has six: both sides have a keyword ability and two loyalty abilities. Daybound and Nightbound have multiple abilities baked into its rules.
  • Rowan, Scholar of Sparks and Will, Scholar of Frost have three and four respectively, summing to seven, but cannot transform sides.
  • Until War of the Spark, all planeswalker cards had at least three loyalty abilities. However, War of the Spark introduced rare planeswalkers that have only two loyalty abilities in addition to a static or triggered ability, as well as uncommon planeswalkers that only have one loyalty ability in addition to a static or triggered ability. Since then, there have been seven mythic rare (plus three rare) planeswalkers with only two loyalty abilities:
    • Vivien, Monsters' Advocate, Jace, Mirror Mage and Commodore Guff have two loyalty abilities and two static or triggered abilities.
    • Jeska, Thrice Reborn has two loyalty abilities, a static ability, a Commander ability, and a Partner ability.
    • Nissa of Shadowed Boughs, Rowan, Scholar of Sparks, Grand Master of Flowers, Tyvar, Jubilant Brawler, Teyo, Geometric Tactician and Chandra, Legacy of Fire have two loyalty abilities and one static or triggered ability.
  • Until War of the Spark, all but three planeswalker cards had positive loyalty abilities (i.e. loyalty abilities that gave them loyalty counters as a cost). With War of the Spark however, 20 uncommon planeswalkers were printed who only have negative loyalty abilities. Discounting those uncommons, the total is now ten.
    • The exceptions pre-War were Sarkhan the Mad, Kaya, Ghost Assassin, and the front side of Garruk Relentless, which only had neutral or negative loyalty abilities. However, Kaya's card had an ability that allowed players to exile it and returns it to the battlefield (thus restoring its starting counters), and Garruk's card had positive loyalty abilities on the backside, making Sarkhan's card the only planeswalker that couldn't gain or restore counters on its own.
    • After War were a new series of no-positive Planeswalkers were printed, though all had other ways to restore their loyalty. Vraska, Betrayal's Sting and Chandra, Acolyte of Flame have 0 abilities that add loyalty on resolution. The Wolves that Garruk, Cursed Huntsman create add loyalty to him when they die. Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis uses Escape to "restore" loyalty through recasting. Jeska, Thrice Reborn does the same by being a potential Commander. Lolth, Spider Queen and Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim have passive abilities that add loyalty. Of these, Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis is unique as being the only planeswalker to have three negative abilities, with all others having a 0 ability.
    • In contrast, only four planeswalkers have abilities that do not remove loyalty in some form, with Jace, Mirror Mage's 0 ability costing variable loyalty. Gideon of the Trials, Gideon, Battle-Forged, Grand Master of Flowers, and Nahiri, the Unforgiving have only +2, +1 or 0 loyalty abilities. Of these, neither of Gideon's cards reference to their loyalty's numerical value. Chandra, Legacy of Fire is unique in that her 0 ability removes a variable amount on resolution, but she can also take it from other planeswalkers.
  • Comet, Stellar Pup is the only Planeswalker to have exactly one ability, alongside having the loyalty costs appear in the text box. While other planeswalkers that add or remove loyalty on resolution have been printed prior, the word length of Comet's abilities is likely the reason it needed symbols. All this is necessary because Comet is the only planeswalker with a fully random loyalty ability, relying on the roll of a die.
• Loyalty counters Same premise here for loyalty counter page Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh, Nicol Bolas, the Arisen, Urza, Planeswalker, and Nissa, Ascended Animist, Ugin, Eye of the Storm have the most loyalty counters (seven) when they enter the battlefield, not counting 'diminishing' planeswalkers (those who can't gain or restore counters) or the event exclusive Garruk the Slayer (who was meant to be played by itself, without a deck). This was likely done to highlight the fact that Ugin and Nicol Bolas are exceptionally powerful, even by planeswalker standards, and Urza is a pre-Mending planeswalker at the height of his power. Nissa is a mechanical choice as the only double Phyrexian mana planeswalker, and so requires a loyalty that makes sense for both the full cost and a cost two mana fewer.
  • Sarkhan the Mad, Arlinn, Voice of the Pack, Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner, Kaya, Bane of the Dead, and Huatli, the Sun's Heart also start with seven loyalty, but they have no way to regain loyalty counters. All of these have different design impetuses for having high loyalty:
    • Sarkhan is primarily a draw engine, with situational negative activated abilities. As designed, Sarkhan plays as an aggro curve-topper: the second ability turns up to three obsolete creatures into Dragons, and the third represents 5 damage of reach over two turns if forced to use the second to power it.
    • Kaya has the most powerful activated ability with the worst passive, so to balance proliferate in the format she requires two proliferates for another activation.
    • Kiora and Huatli are designed in reverse, with draft-around passives, so their high loyalty is to give them longevity, with activated abilities as minor upsides.
    • Arlinn sits in the middle, with the activated ability, passive ability, and high mana value going towards a strong uncommon proliferate payoff, balanced by the fact that she requires three turns to maximize loyalty value, with the first activation giving a rather weak 3/3 on turn 6. In exchange, proliferating after the third activation gives three 4/4s and one 2/2 for six mana.
  • Nissa Revane, Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer, Kasmina, Enigma Sage, Rowan, Scholar of Sparks and Tamiyo, Seasoned Scholar have the lowest starting loyalty counters at two.
  • Nissa, Steward of Elements has a variable loyalty X from its mana cost. Jeska, Thrice Reborn enters with a number of loyalty counters equal to the number of times you've cast your commander from the command zone. Dakkon, Shadow Slayer enters with loyalty equal to the number of lands. Ob Nixilis, the Adversary can create a planeswalker copy with X loyalty by sacrificing a creature with power X. All can enter with loyalty from zero to over seven.
  • Karn Liberated has the highest loyalty addition of abilities at +4. Gideon, Champion of Justice has the largest loyalty cost at -15, barring the unbound -X cost that multiple planeswalkers have.
• The Lorwyn printing of the original five are the only ones that feature properly translated typelines. They've been branded as Planeswalker in every language ever since. Incorporated into Planeswalker#Description --Inktog (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• There are 77 different legal planeswalker subtypes, plus one additional subtype (B.O.B.) that only appeared on an acorn card, and four only appeared as Heroes of the Realm types. not notable --Inktog (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • The Wanderer, while a distinct character, does not have her own subtype. Because the name of the Emperor is not allowed to be known by anyone, she will never have a subtype, especially now that she is desparked.(ref: Mark Rosewater (January 27, 2022). "Now that the wanderers identity is known was...". Blogatog. Tumblr.) A non-canon card gave the "Wanderer" subtype, if only to avoid being a team-up with only one name otherwise. Already incorporated into the article The Wanderer --Inktog (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Urza began as an Unstable planeswalker before being brought to Eternal in The Brother's War. Already incorporated into Urza#Subtype --Inktog (talk) 15:09, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • The Aetherspark also lacks a subtype, partially as it is not a character. It is an Artifact Equipment, which takes significant typeline space. Already incorporated into Aetherspark --Inktog (talk) 15:09, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• There is one planeswalker card (The Royal Scions) that has two subtypes, as it depicts two different planeswalker characters (the twins Will and Rowan Kenrith).
• There are eight planeswalker cards whose name does not include their planeswalker type; The Wanderer, The Wandering Emperor, The Eternal Wanderer, The Royal Scions, The Aetherspark (reasons above), Professor Onyx, Grand Master of Flowers (Liliana and Bahamut, respectively, both operating incognito), and Space Beleren (typeline of Jace is displaced by a pun on his first name). Incorporated into planeswalker type. Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• Of the 8 colorless planeswalkers, four are Karn and three are Ugin, with the last being The Aetherspark. Not notable --Inktog (talk) 15:59, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• Only five sets have non-mythic planewalkers: Lorwyn, War of the Spark, Core Set 2020, Phyrexia: All Will Be One and Commander Masters.
  • Lorwyn was the debut set for the first cycle planeswalkers and was before the Mythic rarity. Later reprints in Core Sets elevated them to Mythic.
  • War of the Spark has 13 planeswalkers at rare and 20 at uncommon, but all are reduced in abilities (see below) to accommodate the density.
  • Core Set 2020 has a rare and an uncommon Chandra planeswalker. Neither can snowball with their abilities on their own.
  • Phyrexia: All Will Be One has five planeswalkers at rare that are not discernably different from any mythic planeswalkers, though the mythic planeswalkers in that set are all Compleated.
  • Commander Masters has three rare planeswalkers in the Commander-themed list, but given it is a preconstructed product rarity is arbitrary. Opening line and Lorwyn's rarity change added to Planeswalker#Description, the rest is left for the reader to explore.Shield (talk) 00:17, 6 April 2025 (UTC)
• Kytheon, Hero of Akros, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Liliana, Heretical Healer, Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, Nissa, Vastwood Seer, Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, Grist, Voracious Larva, Ral, Monsoon Mage, Sorin of House Markov, Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student, and Ajani, Nacatl Pariah are double-faced cards that are legendary creatures on the front side and planeswalkers on the back, depicting them in their life prior to when their sparks first ignited. Can be incorporated into the DFC - History section, partially is already Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • I don't think "This set repeated an innovation from a previous set" is necessarily notable enough for History, but I added some info about flipwalkers to Planeswalker#Flavor, with a Scryfall link so people can see the whole roster. --Inktog (talk) 15:44, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Urza also has a double-faced card with a legendary creature but requires a second card (The Mightstone and Weakstone) to meld with in order to reflect his power. Also incorporated into Planeswalker#Flavor --Inktog (talk) 15:44, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor has Valki on his front face, as does Lukka, Wayward Bonder with Mila. Both are modal DFCs with legendary creatures on the front, but the front faces do not represent them specifically.
  • Teferi Akosa of Zhalfir has a Battle on his front face. Not notable --Inktog (talk) 15:44, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• Dakkon Blackblade, Sivitri Scarzam, Jared Carthalion, Jaya Ballard, Jeska, Karn, Minsc & Boo, Narset, Nicol Bolas, Ob Nixilis, Quintorius Kand, Samut, Teferi, Urza, Venser, and Xenagos have all been printed as both planeswalker cards and legendary creature cards, either because their creature cards were printed before the planeswalker card type was introduced (Dakkon, Jaya, Sivitri, Karn, Bolas, Teferi, Venser, and Urza's first creature card), or because their creature cards depicted them at a time when their spark wasn't ignited (Jared, Narset, Ob Nixilis, Samut, Quintorius, Xenagos, Jeska and Urza's later creature cards). Also, Minsc and Boo are non-canon characters, appearing in D&D crossover sets, so the designation of them as planeswalkers is more to do with popularity. Azor, Garth One-Eye, Ravi, and Slobad are all planeswalkers who've been printed as legendary creature cards, but not as planeswalker cards. Ravi and Slobad's first creature cards were printed before the planeswalker card type was introduced, while their second creature cards portrayed them after losing their sparks. Likewise, Azor was printed as a legendary creature because his card depicted him after losing his spark. Garth's circumstances are unknown, hailing from a set with no chronology. Information already incorporated into Planeswalker#Flavor, and I don't think examples are necessary. --Inktog (talk) 16:00, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• After the Desparkening, many other former planeswalkers have creature cards, marked as such with a fractured planeswalker symbol, such as Narset, Enlightened Exile and Samut, Vizier of Naktamun. Incorporated into Planeswalker#Planeswalker characters; I only mentioned it in passing since it's only tangentially related to this article's scope. --Inktog (talk) 22:11, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
• Planeswalker was featured as rules cards 1-3 of 5 in the Lorwyn set and 1 of 9 in the Magic 2011 set. Never saw the point of these ones myself Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
• Highest number of individual planeswalker cards per character. Some characters are favored more than others, usually resulting in a higher number of unique cards representing them. Planeswalkers that have more than three ten? planeswalker cards as of Tarkir: Dragonstorm: Incorporated into Planeswalker#Planeswalker characters. I decided to go with just the highest number and ignore the rest, as Chandra is an especially notable outlier. --Inktog (talk) 22:11, 5 April 2025 (UTC)
  • Twenty-three cards: Chandra
  • Fifteen cards: Jace
  • Fourteen cards: Ajani
  • Thirteen cards: Liliana
  • Eleven cards: Nissa
  • Nine cards: Teferi, Sorin Markov, Garruk (Garruk Relentless notably is a double-faced card, with both sides being planeswalkers; in this case, it is still considered one card.)
  • Eight cards: Gideon, Sarkhan, Tezzeret, Kaya, Elspeth Tirel
  • Seven cards: Vivien, Vraska
  • Six cards: Ral Zarek
  • Five cards: Nahiri, Nicol Bolas, Tamiyo, Tibalt, Ashiok
  • Four cards: Domri, Dovin, Huatli, Kiora, Ob Nixilis, Saheeli Rai, Karn, Rowan Kenrith, Kaito Shield (talk) 04:36, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

I just spotted this effort in the recent changes log, and I want to offer you a big THANK YOU. This is a huge undertaking, and worth a lot! Corveroth (talk) 04:31, 10 July 2025 (UTC)