Template talk:Planeswalker

Barinellos'

I'm having some trepidations about including Dack on this list, in part because that would mean we should add Sifa as well. If we do that, then Baltrice might as well come in as well. What I'm so laboriously getting around to, is posing the question of if we should only include walkers with actual cards or informed identity (IE the game characters) or should we further expand the neowalker list?Barinellos 21:48, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

Read. Don't know what to say. --Magic Mage (talk!) 00:55, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Font size: 95%

It was broken before. Kraken Chowder 101 (talk) 00:31, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Thanks. --Magic Mage (talk!) 00:55, 12 November 2012 (EST)

Length

This list is getting rather long and unwieldy. Can somebody try to make it mare compact or collapsable? Thx. --Hunter (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Did it myself --Hunter (talk) 09:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Template purpose

Looking at this, it looks like this template is listing not just neowalkers, but all planeswalkers who have received Planeswalker cards. Several member of the list were 'walkers before the Mending. At the very least, Freyalise is dead, and Teferi sacrificed his spark in the build-up to the Mending. I suggest that either this template remain as-is, listing card-holding planeswalkers, in which case it should be renamed ("Planeswalker_cards", or similar), or it should be trimmed appropriately to the set of post-Mending walkers. --Corveroth (talk) 22:07, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I would like to update it to hold all planeswalker, also the ones without cards and dividing them into carded and not carded planeswalker. - Yandere Sliver 02:38, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Columns

While I agree that the list was a mess, I do not think columns have improved the situation in the slightest. This layout introduces more problems with the color icons, especially on smaller screens. The text wrapping becomes harder to read, and the column heights become inconsistent. I'm in favor of simply removing those mana icons from the navigation and incorporating it into the planeswalker's infobox (probably in the form of a list, cardlinking each variant with its colors). Commander info could either be removed, or used as a subgroup for the cards. While it would be nice to separate the walkers by color, I see no practical way to accommodate all color combinations within a reasonably-sized navbox without high-maintenance duplication. --Corveroth (talk) 04:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, the list had the advantage that I could properly view the thing on my tablet. Right now is doesn't even wrap properly. I think when we clean the colors and commander info from the nav it would be very helpful. - Yandere Sliver 21:04, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm... Well, I put the columns to help visualize each planeswalker by its colors. I think it's fine. But, if you remove the colors, then obviously there is no need to have columns. Should they have the colors or not? I don't know but somehow I like to see them by their colors.--Tuamir (talk) 23:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I think there's definitely a place to have the planeswalkers sorted by their colors, but I'm increasingly thinking that the navbox is not that place. If we could trivially sort them into five color categories, perhaps, but the existence of multicolored cards and multiple printings complicates that. I'll propose that we move that information from the navbox out to the list of planeswalkers. --Corveroth (talk) 00:04, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Also this is how it looks on smaller screens: :File:Nav_screenshot.png. The standard nov box does not handle columns well, this is why template:Navbox with columns exists. But even if we update the logic I fear the nav box will still be overloaded. Yandere Sliver 00:59, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

I put the template:Navbox with columns. How it looks now on smaller screens? --Tuamir (talk) 02:31, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

At 720px width, and with my browser set to identify itself as an iPad, this is what it currently looks like. --Corveroth (talk) 03:18, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Maintenance template for QoL

Shout out to the folks who're more active on this template. I just created a demo over here showing off a {{PWL}} template designed to alleviate a lot of the boilerplate templating that gets reused a lot here. Thoughts? --Corveroth (talk) 02:02, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Test: Ajani ... That seems to work beautiful and would clean up the first section of the Nav a lot. So yes I am all in. - Yandere Sliver 08:42, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Regarding "previously"

What are the expectations for listing some of a planeswalker's colors as such? Does it change to match each new printing? Is it tracking the character's underlying identity? And what or who does it serve? --Corveroth (talk) 22:25, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

The most recent printing describes more or less the current standing of the character in terms of philosophy and story. The previous part is basically just lists what colors the character utilized before.

Ajani was always centered around white. In his Vengeant persona he utilized red mana, but abandoned that path and later incorporated green into his worldview after Elspeth death. There was however never a WGR version of Ajani. : Sarkan was always centered around red. He often utilized green as well. During the time of his madness he used black instead of green, but he obviously left that phase behind. Obviously he picked up some blue magic during his time travel stuff. I mean blue seems to be a very good color for time travel if you look at Tolaria and Teferi. But again no UBRG version was never printed, he never had those colors all at the same time.

Nissa is centered around green but dabbled into blue probably during the Trial of Knowledge she performed. So blue is not permanent part of her.

Does that make any sense? - Yandere Sliver 23:08, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I understand the reasoning, but I have a few objections. First, I question the interpretation of the printings and their relationship to the characters. For Ajani and Sarkhan, the story provides adequate evidence that they have abandoned some of the colors they've previously used. However, Nissa has given no indication, in the story, of ceasing to embody blue. The only evidence is a planeswalker card in a Planeswalker Deck, and the decklists for those minimize multicolor for the sake of simplicity. Furthermore, Tamiyo's EMN card is only in those colors because it was required by development, and her character is still primarily blue and she could see a new printing in monoblue. That suggests that any transient addition to a planeswalker's color presentation may be the result of developmental demands, rather than any deeper statement about the character. Any expansion is likely constrained to additions which plausibly fit the character, but I do not think further inferences are warranted.

Second, I question whether it is our job on the wiki to infer the characters' identities on such meager evidence. For the reasons above, I do not believe that any particular printing is a definitive statement about the entirety of the character's current state. We might report the facts (that such-and-such are their most recent printed colors), but should not insert our own interpretations (such-and-such is the character's current identity).

Finally, even if we admit such opinions, and even if we accept that each printing is an exact representation of the character's color identity, why does the history lesson on their prior identity belong in a navbox? --Corveroth (talk) 00:27, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I actually agree with your points. Nissa's explanation is rather flimsy and Tamiyo is also an odd ball for the exact reason you named. The main point is that people wanted to include the color identity in the Nav which is understandable. However on Ajanni(WRG) and Sarkhan(URGB) are really weird color alignments, because they never had these colors. Well, not all at the same time. There was also a previous idea to have main and secondary colors: Sarkhan(R/UGB) for example. However that was removed from the Nav at some point, because it was rather clunky. The 'previous' connotation is basically a residual from that time. And it worked quite well until they printed Nissa in UG.

I am open for suggestions. - Yandere Sliver 06:52, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I recently created the page Igniting to group the igniting info about the Planeswalkers. The same way, I could also create a new page to group in a table the color identity history of the planeswalkers, and that page could be linked to the planeswalker navbox and to Color_identity. But I would do that with just one condition: removing the color identity from the planeswalkers in the navbox. If the color identity remains in the navbox, then I don't bother to create the page I mentioned. What do you choose? --Tuamir (talk) 20:06, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I apologize, I dropped this conversation in the midst of discussion. I am interested in experimenting with presentations for planeswalker identity histories. Does color evolution of planeswalkers sound like a good article name? Or do you have you own idea in mind? --Corveroth (talk) 05:13, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Rosewater literally cleared this up. I posted the link in another discussion, please go read it. Nissa hasn't lost blue. Rosewater confirms multi walkers got printed as their primary colors in this set at times. Like how we are talking about wether its our job to "infer" yet we ignore a guy making the game lol--J spencer93 (talk) 05:26, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

The question would be of sourcing. Since we have confirmation of a few cases, but by far not all. As I mentioned before going with the cards is easy and straight forward. Including more information in an navigation tool which might require serious references is something I am not so sure about. I mean we can obviously clear things up on the respective pages. I mean I am all in for a color evolution article that sounds good. But that brings me to another point. Should the nav show colors at all? I mean it looks nice that is for sure, but currently we are mixing game and lore terms in a nav without much sourcing - Yandere Sliver 06:25, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

The problem is, to be honest, we just got info that contradicts how we display in the info boxes. We now know new walker cards may not show the actual colors of the walkers. You are on the right on the nav topic....how should we handle that? Show the colors known to currently have and previously (not what is printed but what we know they actually have)? If so i think it only changes one person (we know Davriel is dimir but has only a black card). If we do that it keeps the changes to a minimal. Them deciding to print walkers without displaying all colors is a pain. I do believe each walker has a space on their page showing current colors and previous colors would be good, maybe the info box?.--J spencer93 (talk) 15:54, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

I agree with the idea removing the color from the navbox (it has become cluttered as well), and adding sections to infoboxes instead. --Hunter (talk) 05:57, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

I created the Planeswalker's colorshift ~page to handle the colorshift information. So, if we modify now the navox of the walkers to include their colors and a link to Planeswalker's colorshift for those who have been colorshifted, then we could remove the colors from this template. --Tuamir (talk) 14:21, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Instead doing it on a new page, why not do it on the respective planeswalker's page? --J spencer93 (talk) 16:15, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, we can do both. we have a few overview articles in the wiki. Essentially everything that starts with "List of" I mean we can still have that on the individual planeswalker pages. I added a colors parameter as you can see with Nicol Bolas. I think his colors are very well established and uncontroversial. - Yandere Sliver 18:15, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I will check it out. And yea both is fine in my opinion. And so far, we know all planeswalkers colors (this set they just decided to do a funny).Love it. Exactly what the page's needed in my opinion. As for those being printed in their primary colors only this set, I don't think putting their primary, secondary, and previous colors if they have them would be wrong per say. Maybe a lot of info for that space.--J spencer93 (talk) 19:27, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Started changing them but figured I'd stop and make sure this is the way we are headed yes? I did each gatewatch to give everyone a decent view of how it would look and generate an opinion. Also for Mono colored, are we putting center or not? Since someone has already filled a few in, ill go ahead and finish them. Feel free to yell at me if not liked.--J spencer93 (talk) 20:34, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I would say consistency is a good thing so I would add the "Center". Planeswalker use by the the same infobox as any other character so we can fill in this information for pretty much everyone we know the colors of. For example, Yawgmoth is as black as it can be. - Yandere Sliver 21:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

But Yawgmoth has no card yet. I would put colors only in carded people. --Tuamir (talk) 21:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

It was just a suggestion. I probably can get enough sources together to make a case that his color identity is mono B, but I am not married to the idea to display colors for every character we have. - Yandere Sliver 21:36, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

You think we could change previously to just show the color they lost? --J spencer93 (talk) 21:11, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I am not so sure about that. I would simply list the alignment they previously held. If a character ever changes the center color it will be a nightmare to edit everything. - Yandere Sliver 21:21, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't think one ever changes a center. Actually as it is now this can get rather cluttered and doesn't portray colors correctly. Like Sarkhan, he wasn't previously both and lost them to become 3 colors, he simply lost 1 and gained 2. I actually think in the long run this will save room. Come Sarkhan changing or such, we can save a lot of room just listed lost colors instead of having to add another 2 symbols to the previously section.--J spencer93 (talk) 21:23, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Then I would not call it Previously but "Lost" or something along the line... - Yandere Sliver 21:26, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

IF we are just showing colors, and not showing printings of cards, I think calling it lost would be a good idea and list only the lost color. That work for you? Also thanks for filling those out that i missed if that was you. --J spencer93 (talk) 21:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)--J spencer93 (talk) 21:31, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Yo, that sounds good. - Yandere Sliver 21:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Issue. Those shown with 2 colors but we don't know the center of shouldn't have a center of both, as far as we know that's not even possible. Maybe added: Center: Unknown, Currently: what they have? Did a test on Angrath, check it out.--J spencer93 (talk) 22:26, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

The center can be more that one color. That's why in WAR they used the hybrid symbols. --Tuamir (talk) 22:29, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Thats not confirmed in the least and directly contradicted by use already knowing the center of at least 1 hybrid mana print in this set. Also, go look at the blogatog post about why they are using hybrid mana for some. That is not the reason given..--J spencer93 (talk) 22:30, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I would also say that only in very unique cases like Bolas could the center be really considered more then one color and even with him I would say it is black. On Vraska for example I would say she is strongly Green and Black but I would say her center is Black. Meaning that is the color she needs to be printed with. A hybrid symbol still gives her both colors. In fact the addition of the hybrid colored planeswalker were mainly a play design decision, because the draft environment wouldn't work otherwise. That is why I by the way would say we need sourcing for these color displays. (On a completely diffrent note, I would now clean up the color symbols from the nav. I will still leave the highlight of the planeswalker type in however.) - Yandere Sliver 22:37, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I think one thing are the Desing reasons and the other thing are the Creative reasons/meanings. --Tuamir (talk) 22:39, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

What people think doesn't matter. What is told to us by the canon story and designers is what matters. Go through the recent blogatog post and find the one about hybrid planeswalkers, it will clear it up. Also we haven't got a def center for Vraska, but the fact she is printed as black without losing green is a good sign. Those without indication or without a single color should have unknown. That removes as much speculation as possible and prints headcanon like planeswalkers have two centers.--J spencer93 (talk) 22:42, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Designers explain why they need one or more colors, normally related to set color distribution and standard environment. Later, creative give a story where they justify the colors chosen by design. And usually, the creative justification and the design reason are not the same. And MaRo already has said that some people are centered in more than one color. Two colors in the center doesn't mean "two centers", just means that they will always have at least those two colors. --Tuamir (talk) 22:51, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Actually he did, and he said otherwise...which means we are still assuming we know there centers at all. I think its best we leave them Unknown until we can get official confirmation. We are a wiki, not a someones fan page. Odd...my last comment was removed. He does say they can have 2 center's without saying who has that. We now several walker's with 2 types have a def center, so assinging both to each we see is assuming a lot. http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183993941733/would-it-be-safe-to-summarize-that-planeswalkers I know i am playing devil's advocate here, but i still think it's safer to leave those unknown as blank and i will pester him on the tumblr to get a confirmation, can everyone agree to that?--J spencer93 (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Also...really not supposed to change stuff any a confirmation is come to I believe. --J spencer93 (talk) 22:57, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

In cases we don't know, which are the most cases, we just should infer from the cards. I mean, we have already two cards of Angrath in blakc/red, thus obviously as a wiki we should infer he is centered in black/red. --Tuamir (talk) 23:00, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Actually no you can't infer that from that. A lack of evidence against something is not confirmation (literally a principal of science btw).Look at vraska, she had 3 or 4 printings multicolored before we got a black card. Or huatli, she had 2 boros before switching to selesnya. According to you her center is boros then, switched to selesnya. No, its white most likely, inferred from what we are shown (btw that's how you infer). If we don't know, put unknown. Leave headcannon off the wiki. Not even being an ass about this. But if we don't know, like you said, then WE DON'T KNOW. Put unknown. The fact you want something possibly false over something that is not concerns me--J spencer93 (talk) 23:04, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

If then she is printed in selesnya, then the infering is that she was centered in white and then the wiki is updated accordingly. The wiki is not static, it's dynamic. The data always is changing. And yes, I may be an ass with this, but I prefer using the infering data, that putting a lot of "unknowns". --Tuamir (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

And you want to infer on cards you want to be a color, but wont take vraska having a black printing as showing she is mainly black over green. Thats not inferring. That is you wanting to put whatever shit you want on it and not really caring if its accurate or not.--J spencer93 (talk) 23:10, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

No, vraska was an error, I didn't remember her black card. -.- --Tuamir (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

The issue is that where a character's color is centered and what is his full color identity is pretty much Word of God. Which is why I would really stress that all the nice color symbols in the nav bar should have ideally references next to them to support the claim. Currently we have nothing of that sort, so the card information is all we have. However it was repeatedly stated that these are not100% accurate which actually makes the whole thing rather wonky. So my suggestion would be to go through Blogatog and find which information can or cannot be sourced the {{fact}} template could also be useful on too outrageous claims - Yandere Sliver 23:14, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

That is exactly what i said....and those we can't confirm we need to put unknown. What would be wrong with that?--J spencer93 (talk) 23:15, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

From my perspective. Nothing. Sometimes we do not know stuff. - Yandere Sliver 23:16, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. I'd rather be safe saying Unknown. Also i have sent a question about centers and am hoping to get a response. If not i will bug him until he answers lol--J spencer93 (talk) 23:18, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

He answered one question already: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/184021458518/goes-with-my-previous-question-but-is-it-same-to So if a card is printed in a single color, it is their center. --J spencer93 (talk) 23:20, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

And here is the other question: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/184021479448/can-a-planeswalker-have-more-then-1-center-or-main that confirms centers with more than one color, implying the hybrid cases. --Tuamir (talk) 23:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I would be more happy if we could put the infering data with an empty {{fact}} than putting "unknows". --Tuamir (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

And an alternative way to handle is just put only a "Currently" instead of putting a Center with unkown. --Tuamir (talk) 23:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Heavily against this. That does nothing but sow false info. I have asked for Rosewater to reveal the walkers centers or at least a few we don't know. I say Unknown until confirmation--J spencer93 (talk) 23:29, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Well, this will be a lot of headache to Maro if you pretend him to say you all the center~s of all the walkers question by question :S --Tuamir (talk) 23:38, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

He answered 3 of my questions in a row, sadly one was wrote so bad, I didn't realize what I meant at first lol. Just asked him if he could confirm some of the centers of those that are in WAR that haven't been confirmed yet. Although i think Kiora is a dual center, I still dont want to put that until sure.--J spencer93 (talk) 23:58, 7 April 2019 (UTC) To be 100% honest, he prob can't answer that until all the walker's are spoiled.--J spencer93 (talk) 00:01, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Also he seems to hint bolas is B/U with slight red. When discussing his powers he mentions red being the weakest of his colors. That further complicates things.--J spencer93 (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Who needs confirmed centers? Bolas, Ashiok, Kiora, Xenagos, venser, samut, saheeli, ral, kaya, estrid, aminatou, domri, dack, angrath and windgrace I believe. The rest are actually confirmed. Also I am in favor of the currently instead of unknown...that is how i originally had them.--J spencer93 (talk) 00:25, 8 April 2019 (UTC) http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/184024147058/could-we-have-some-examples-of-planeswalkers-that I would say that is good enough confirmation to list any hybrid without a single color print as centered in both. Anyone agree? Until we are told otherwise at least, Xenagos I'd leave as current as we haven't gotten a hint of his yet--J spencer93 (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to add my opinion that removing the color information entirely was the wrong move. There is now no centralized area that lists the color identities of all planeswalkers. —⁠烏⁠Γ ^(kaw) │ 05:21, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

I see your point, but I think that could and should be handled in an article. The Nav is first and foremost an navigational tool and will for example not show for mobile users. I mean we could even automate the information a bit and use a tool like DPL to gather the various color information from the planeswalker articles.- Yandere Sliver 22:52, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Is there such an article yet? Also, I don't understand the goal of the "center" debate. A planeswalker's colors are just that - their colors, and the answer should be obvious. This isn't Wikipedia, where everything has to be perfectly cited. This platform documents the facts of what is foremost a card game. Colorshifts are rare and very much story-driven, and WAR's cards have no weight. As an example, Sarkhan is GUR, and his recent mono-red cards don't change that. —⁠烏⁠Γ ^(kaw) │ 08:21, 02 May 2019 (UTC)

烏⁠Γ, there doesn't exist a "centralized area tat lists color identities" yet, but you can find planeswalker's colorshift as an initial work. Someday I will rework that page, I have some ideas, but no time to implement them yet. --Tuamir (talk) 21:05, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

You can just call me Karasu. I've gone ahead and created User:KarasuGamma/List of planeswalker colors as an experiment; I think it's solid, accurate, and able to be moved into mainspace, though I'd welcome input and correction. —⁠烏⁠Γ ^(kaw) │ 07:29, 03 May 2019 (UTC)

Oath of Vraska

Does Vraska's oath not count?

Vraska spoke with confidence. "You have my word as captain of the Belligerent that I will do whatever it takes to sabotage Nicol Bolas upon the return of my memories. I swear to commit my conscious self to his destruction."

Vraska squeezed Jace's hand, and they let go. The pact was made.

— R&D Narrative Team

Bob the Wikipedian ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:52, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Usually the Gatewatch Oaths end with "I will keep watch". It is a commitment to protect the multiverse as a whole. So yeah it is a promises or an oath, but not a Gatewatch oath. - Yandere Sliver 15:50, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Heroes of the Realms Planeswalkers

Should Inzerva be on this list? She comes from the Heroes of the Realms card, which I don't think are canon. If so, we should put on the list the Dungeon Master too... Would it be probably bettere having a subsection for Heroes of the Realms planeswalkers? --Firebead elvenhair (talk) 09:03, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Good call. Does anybody know where Inzerva comes from is that character somehow mentioned in lore? I am not even sure thare should be an extra place for that or simply a redirect to the Heroes of the Realms page. - Yandere Sliver 10:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

She is only known from the card, but that's an product made by Wizards of the Coast. As far as I'm concerned, that's reason enough to count them as canon. --Hunter (talk) 16:45, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

But a subsection is also OK --Hunter (talk) 16:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh that is what I find surprising. Dungeon Master is a clear reference to the 80s D&D carton, but I would not think of it as an canonical Magic character. Well, at maximum in silver border. - Yandere Sliver 17:47, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Actually think Yandere is right on this. Heros of the realms characters need there own section or something to show they may or may not be canonical to what we know (maybe the same with silver borders).--J spencer93 (talk) 15:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Artifacts

So noticed some oddities in older planeswalkers pages compared to new. It use to list their "artifacts" that they possessed. Any reason this can't be added as a section to new walkers? Any reason not too?--J spencer93 (talk) 20:39, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I see no reason why this could not be added to the individual articles. - Yandere Sliver 21:02, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Its already on some of the older ones, that's why I was a little confused why it's not on newer. Either add to the article or the infobox's. Do a test on Bolas maybe, adding the gem of becoming and immortal sun to a section and let see how it looks--J spencer93 (talk) 21:32, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I would add it to the article not to the infoboxes. Possession can change, see Gideon and the Blackblade. However having an important artifact is definitely interesting for a planeswalker and should find mention in the article in one way or the other. At least that would be my take on it. - Yandere Sliver 21:44, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I agree. Check out the Bolas page and give feedback. Also if they lose them, we can simply make a note after the artifact in the list stating that. Needs to be done something about artifacts appearing in cards related to and such and in it's own section.--J spencer93 (talk) 21:58, 7 April 2019 (UTC)