Talk:Davriel Cane

Colors

How are we going to handle his colors? He is center Black, with secondary blue but only depicted on a black card. Also where did the trivia on his colors go?--J spencer93 (talk) 20:25, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Although not printed, the secondary color in blue is already confirmed, it's already cannon. So, it's correctly to put him with "Currently ". The same happens when Maro confirms a center like Narset with . --Tuamir (talk) 00:00, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Yea...that didn't answer my question at all. Some might be wondering where we are getting the blue from. Was wondering where that source went. Btw, I put Davriel's colors...I am aware he is both --J spencer93 (talk) 00:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. I understood wrong you question then. The source is the author of the book in an interview. I will see If can find it. --Tuamir (talk) 00:10, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Sourced. --Tuamir (talk) 00:23, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Sexuality

I understand that the nature of implication makes it impossible to actually source a statement here with nothing from the author, but the implication I got from the text was not asexuality. Here's the passage:

“Perhaps I just don’t like women,” Davriel said lightly. “Please. You think I’m that oblivious?” She stabbed her ledger with a particularly sharp punctuation mark, then looked up. “You are something else entirely.”

To me, this pretty clearly states that Miss Highwater would know if Davriel wasn't attracted to women, and therefore he is. I'd be happy to hear other interpretations. RudleyDudley (talk) 20:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Sure thing. From that passage, I had a different interpretation. "Perhaps I just don't like women" is a joking response that suggests that Davriel is into men (or other genders). "Please. You think I'm that oblivious?" is an objection that Miss Highwater, who had a history of making contracts with adroitness (more on that later), would know very well if he is gay (I don't know how, but hey, the name of the game is Magic). Thus, the finishing remark "You are something else entirely" suggests that he is not gay (as Davriel lightly suggests) or straight, but rather asexual.

There are a few other passages to support this. First, the continuation of that passage:

“Have you considered that perhaps you just aren’t as attractive as you’ve always assumed?” Davriel said. “I’ve claimed plenty of souls using this exact contractual stipulation. Both men and women.” [Miss Highwater responded]

First of all, this notes that Miss Highwater is very proficient at what she does. Almost magical. As we can see with Davriel's other stipulations, he always designs them with a twist that makes them impossible to fulfill. I highly doubt the twist is simple as "Davriel able to ignore Miss Highwater's wiles". Since the choice of the dialogue itself was to discuss Davriel's sexuality rather than any other aspect, I would imagine the "twist" would have something to do with the fact that he is "something else entirely" i.e. asexual. As an intelligent anthropologist professor I met once said, "you can tell if a society has functioning, practical jetpacks if they are discussing laws about jetpacks".

Second, we have this long passage:

“Did you know,” she finally said, “that I was the first demon he summoned, once he reached this land?”

Tacenda shook her head. “None of us had ever heard of him. We were newly free from our prison, where we’d spent what seemed like an eternity, though it was actually a relatively short time. Once free, we’d begun eagerly seeking contracts with mortals. "I thought I’d make quick work of this dandy with the exaggerated clothing and the lazy way of speaking. I rushed into the contract, then applied myself fully to seducing him. But he barely glanced at me before sending me to count the currency in the former lord’s coffer. Over the next few days, I tried every trick I knew. But each time he’d see me, he’d give me another task. “‘Oh, Miss Taria, there you are,’ he’d say—as if that were somehow my last name. ‘I’ve been looking over the receipts from the village taxes, and it seems that many of them have been paying in goods. Bartering does make my brain ache. Would you see if this ledger adds up?’” She shook her head, as if she still couldn’t believe that it had happened. “There I am—looking positively radiant—and he just walks past and hands me a list with the prices of livestock on it!” “That . . . must have been frustrating, I guess?” Tacenda said, trying not to blush too deeply. “It was absolutely infuriating,” Miss Highwater said. “I finally demanded to know why he’d picked me, of all demons, for this work. He’d summoned the Feaster of Men to balance his accounts? And you know what he did? He pulled out some papers. Copies of the contracts I’d done in the past. Demonologists make those, you know—they summon the contract, make a copy, and then read over the details to study their art. “Well, he had about ten of my old contracts, and he absolutely mooned over them. Talked about how clever my wording had been, how neatly I’d ensnared my previous masters. To him, the contracts were the things of true beauty.” Miss Highwater smiled, and there seemed to be real fondness in the expression as she looked toward Davriel’s carriage. “He didn’t care what I looked like. He summoned me specifically because he thought I’d be good at doing his ledgers. And he was right. I am good at contracts; I’ve always prided myself on that. It has made me an excellent steward.

“I’m not ashamed of what I am or how I look. But . . . it’s nice to be recognized for something else. A thing I’ve always prided myself on, but virtually every other person—mortal and demon alike—has ignored. So no, I don’t think Crunchgnar is completely right. Perhaps we were all created for a specific purpose, but that doesn’t prevent us from finding other purposes as well.”

First off, hats off for Brandon Sanderson for making a very wholesome moment for a seductress demon. Secondly, the first half of this passage are even more instances where Davriel simply is immune to Miss Highwater's attempts as seduction. Mind you, Davriel has not been seduced by Miss Highwater for 4 years.

The second part of the passage however has two interpretations as to what Davriel's "twist" on this contract. The first is that Davriel is asexual, doesn't really care about her sexual looks, and because of his asexuality, only cares about her talent at crafting contracts and considers that "true beauty". The second interpretation is that Davriel is solely interested in her aptitude at negotiating and achieving stipulations in spite of her looks. The 2nd interpretation is very wholesome and would be very suiting of a white-blue character. Only Davriel is anything but. It has been shown again and again within the novella that Davriel is characterized by valuing pleasure and lethargy over being a decent human being to other people as an archetypal black-blue character (That's our Dav). Finally, we also see here that Miss Highwater is extremely adept at seduction to the point where Davriel compliments her (not out of kindness but out of recognition). Yet Davriel manages to entirely avoid this and not "care what [she] looked like", which further implicates his asexuality as the "twist" to the contract.

Third, we have this short passage:

He quickly walked to the small chamber where the Seelenstone had once been kept. Several young priests were in the room, screaming in fear—likely they’d been trying to find a way to put the trinket back together. If so, they had been interrupted by a dark figure forming from smoke in front of them.

Davriel quickly took off his cloak, and settled it on the dark form as it took shape. It wasn’t entirely covering, however, and so the prioress gasped as Miss Highwater appeared. One of the priests actually fainted. “Don’t gawk,” Davriel said to the others. “It only encourages her.”

The demon caught his eye, then smiled.

Uh awkwardly, in this scene, Miss Highwater is...lacking clothing (hence why Dav is putting a cloak on her and it isn't "entirely covering"). Despite having a woman in front of Davriel without clothing who is ostentatiously sexy by design, Davriel does not care (as his soul would be relinquished by now otherwise). Priests are fainting, and Davriel does not even have a reaction, just a bit of sass. This extremely suggests that Davriel is asexual.

All in all, I believe that the text highly suggests that Davriel's loophole on Miss Highwater's contract is that he specifically chose his closest demonic steward not only for her talent (because there are likely tons of other cunning demons who are good are diction and ledgers; Davriel would be one who is aware of the Brokers on New Capenna) but because he is literally immune to her wiles. However, I would make the page state this implication is not "explicitly stated" in the same way that Chandra and Nissa's relationship before March of the Machine was not "explicitly stated". NeraBuvelle (talk) 22:11, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

That's a fair interpretation. To me, "maybe I'm not into women" includes the suggestion that Davriel could be gay or ace, not just the former, so Highwater saying she'd know if he wasn't precludes both of those possibilities. Either way, I think this is subtextual enough that we can leave the article as-is, presenting the evidence, and let readers speculate and conclude on their own. RudleyDudley (talk) 22:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)