Talk:Conjure

Conjuring a duplicate

I recently saw a LegenVD video (his HBG draft during the VIP access) where he stated that a perpetual bonus to a creature with Double team would NOT apply to the "duplicated" card created by Double team. Unfortunately he didn't actually play the cards that way so I didn't see it in action. Does anyone have a source for that interaction? Also curious if Double team would pick up any other "copiable values" - I believe its tooltip just says "duplicate" so not super indicative how that's defined. And it's not the only "conjure a duplicate" effect by any means.

Questions to answer - how much is "conjure a duplicate" like "copy" - if a card on the battlefield had modified "copiable values", what would it look like "duplicated"? Is LVD's claim about perpetual effects accurate, and does it apply to perpetual effects on cards duplicated by other conjure abilities?

Making a similar note on Talk:Double team, Talk:Copy, and Talk:Perpetually. Note that Double team is really just a special case of Conjure.

And maybe I'll save my whining about undocumented interactions for the other page :P - jerodast (talk) 02:54, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Video of a conjured duplicate not retaining perpetual effects: At the beginning of the very last game in this video (starting around 2h24m), there is a sequence where the opponent plays Goblin Warcaller, gives two different Double team creatures perpetual haste, and is then killed. The two perpetually buffed creatures are played and attack, triggering Double team. Finally one of the Double team duplicates is later played, and does not have haste. Proof at last :) - jerodast (talk) 22:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

Elaborating on "conjure a duplicate of a copy" idea: I'm still curious to see "conjure a duplicate" applied to a card that is a copy of another card. Most conjure-a-duplicate abilities that target the battlefield rather than cards in other zones seem conspicuously careful to say "nontoken". That makes me wonder if the duplicate bases itself on the underlying "physical" card rather than a copiable value (i.e. the name) of the object as it currently stands. After all, duplicates are based on the identity of the card as far as we know, not on its copiable values. On the other hand that template could just be to try to hedge against infinite combos. Conjure-a-duplicate cards that hit the battlefield: Flames of Moradin, Futurist Spellthief, Grave Choice, Semblance Scanner, Sinister Reflections, Snowborn Simulacra, Soul Servitude, Ulder Ravengard, Marshal. - jerodast (talk) 16:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

A good search for historic-legal cards that can cause nontoken cards (incl themselves) to become a copy of another card: o:/(becomes?|(enter|battlefield) as) (a copy|copies)/ legal:historic. There are more than I thought. Lazav and Ludevic/Olag are especially interesting since they retain their own name while being a copy. - jerodast (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Copy effects — As it turns out that perpetual effects are not copiable values. Video of a token copy not retaining perpetual effects from the player point of view:

• Sequence starts at 1h 01m 48s – Jim casts Irenicus's Vile Duplication, targeting a perpetually buffed Priest of Ancient Lore. At 1h 02m 09s, the newly created token can clearly be seen as a 2/1, without the perpetual +1/+0 buff.

It seems that perpetual functions as a continuous effect that lasts for the rest of the game and affects the card in all zones. If that's the case, then does that mean that 'conjure a duplicate' does actually function as it's worded — creating a copy of a card? If anyone finds some layer-based shenanigans, that would be confirmation.

I've made a similar note on Talk:Perpetually with the full sequence detail for the video.--RivalRowan (talk) 00:10, 26 August 2022 (UTC)